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VD's Libris Mortis for 5th Edition. Thread starter VoidDrifter Start date Feb 12, For me, well, that School is undoubtedly Necromancy with Evocation close behind. I guess, at heart, it's a combination of n appreciation for darker settings and anti-hero types, and simply the fact that it just feels more "magical" to me.
Enchantment and Illusion, I'm just too predisposed to writing off as comparatively mundane trickery by comparison - I guess a result of growing up reading Conan, where it's repeatedly stated that most hypnotic spells work in large part because of cultural indoctrination - whilst Divination has always felt too "NPC-focused" for me as a player.
Whilst there's certainly an abundance of necromancy spells in total, they've tended to be scattered over sourcebooks, and as 5e currently doesn't have a "Complete Book of Necromancers", a "Libris Mortis", or even a "Complete Arcane", well, that leaves 5e Necromancers in particular with a fairly limited spellbook if they want to be thematic. I also have some issues with the kinds of spells traditionally lumped under necromancy.
Namely, despite the school's association with destruction and death, it tends to be rather lacking in actual "blasty" type spells. Where's the ability to let out soul-withering ghostly screams, to freeze foes with the cold of the deepest grave, to scorch them with hellfire? This most famously manifested itself in the fact that the Necromancer was long inferior in terms of controlling the undead to an evil Cleric, courtesy of their "Control Undead" class feature, but it also manifesteds in a bias in spell allotment as well - seriously, can you believe that in 3rd edition, Create Undead was a Cleric-exclusive spell?
Maybe even try some completely homebrewed spell ideas that I've had boiling around, inspired by the likes of Warcraft and Sacrifice.
It's a 3e sourcebook, but it's got a lot of interesting ideas. Ways of making undead more unique. The "Bind Undead" feats, which allow you to render undead you create permanently animated and loyal. The "Reign Undead" skill, which was used to teach undead to perform complicated tasks essentially "Animal Handling for Necromancers".
The Undead Master was awesome, as it was the most "pulpy" Dark Mage wizard kit ever envisoned. For the price of giving up all but the barest minimum combat skill and access to three schools of magic Alteration, Divination, Illusion , it gave you the usual Necromancer bonuses, let you cast Enchantment spells ordinarily forbidden to a Necromancer , Control Undead as if you were an Evil Cleric of equivalent level, and Control Outsiders as if they were Undead of equivalent hit dice.
Now, "I'm A Banana" was awesome by noting ways you could pull off this kit perfectly legitimately by just using the right blend of spells, backgrounds and feats, plus a homebrew feat for an added bit of "oomph", but still, it made me wonder if 5e doesn't have room for necromantic Prestige Classes, feats, alternate subclasses, skills, etc. Beyond that I realised that for all my enthusiasm to convert spells, I actually am a rookie who could really use the input of others on the occasional bit of brainstorming.
For example, I've heard that the Summon Undead spells from the Libris Mortis were held up as pretty awful back in 3. And how can I fix that? The Ravenloft version is called Army of Darkness and takes a day to cast, whilst the Libris Mortis one is dubbed Plague of Undeath and only takes an action. How do I choose which one to use?
Can I maybe work them both in, just using different effects from casting? So, recognizing that I need the assistance and input of others for this little project, I start this topic here. If you're interested in fleshing out the necromancer's arsenal in 5e, please, I'd love to talk shop and swap ideas, see what we can do! Dreamspitter Registered User Validated User. On a related note -I've heard that 5E Wizards are finally better than clerics at fulfilling that role.
But it's not something I've done myself. Though In 3E I made a looot of skellingtons as a Warlock with the invocation for it.
If I may ask, I know you've been interested in the necromancer as an archetype for a long time -but in making this thread I wonder if Blizzard's Necromancer trailer at Blizzcon 16 and upcoming release this year was any influence? I like that kind of stuff.
I don't think there will be any prestige classes this time around but there will be paths It's an archetype I'm sure will be filled. But up until now, as another thread notes Wizards has been adventure focused rather than books of player character crunch.
In the mean time, I'll take a look around at what I can dig up. I must say I'm a little confused by your final paragraph, but I appreciate the sentiment and thank you for the time. And, yes, 5e wizards are better than clerics at last. The big difference, given the drastic cut-back in necromancy spells available, means clerics no longer have their arsenal of unique necromancy spells, so that leaves them with just one thing: the Control Undead feature.
This innate ability to control and command the undead without giving up precious spell-slots to do so as was the case in 2nd and 3rd edition made clerics just that much better at being necromancers.
But, in 5e, that ability has been removed from the cleric entirely. Only the Wizard who takes the Necromancer subclass can use that feature. VoidDrifter said:. Ah, see, my confusion was because WoTC has shown absolutely no interest in anything other than one or two adventures per year, and given their hit and miss record with UAs and their two non-adventurer books so far, I'm not entirely sure I'd trust them with a Libris Mortis 5e.
Hell, my entire opening speech boils down to "I think WoTC hasn't given necromancers enough credit; I'm going to try and homebrew as much possible as I can to bump them up and really explore their potential - being that I'm just one guy with not a lot of experience homebrewing, I could really use other necro-fans interested in examining what I got and helping me bounce ideas around to make the magic happen". Hence, my confusion at what you were actually trying to say in your first post.
Now, on the topic of actually getting to work I'm currently trying to work out where to start on this project, and I could use opinions. Firstly, the order I'm thinking of going in is: Spells first, Monsters second, Class Expansions feats, subclasses, prestige classes, skills, whatever third. This sound sensible to anyone else?
Secondly, for the spell updating, does it make the most sense to start with the Complete Book of Necromancers first, then move on to Libris Mortis, then finish with Heroes of Shadow? Finally, in the Libris Mortis, there's a series of spells relating to Necrotic Cysts. These all require you have a "Mother Cyst" as a material focus.
I'm trying to decide how to handle them - what I'm currently leaning towards is the idea of making Mother Cyst into a feat and the various Necrotic Cyst spells are instead special abilities you can get by using spellslots, rather than as spells proper. Do folks think this makes sense? Or should I just remove the idea of needing a Mother Cyst entirely, as I personally uphold the belief that material components for adventuring wizards are and always have been a stupid idea?
So, I've been slowly chipping away at my stockpile of spells to convert, and I've hit upon an issue where I'm unsure how to proceed. In the "Libris Mortis", there's an equivalent spell called Plague of Undeath, which does the exact same thing, but only takes 1 action to cast. Now, I'm aware of Animate Dead's ability to raise more undead through upcasting. Problem is, a 9th level Animate Dead creates a grand total of thirteen 13 zombies or skeletons, which is no army by any stretch of the imagination.
I'm currently thinking that the two spells can work in 5e, but how to do so is the issue. After all, raising massive amounts of individual undead would essentially destroy action economy and drive the DM nuts.
This allows the caster to have something that really feels like an army of the undead, but which still only uses up actions as per a single minion.
Does this make sense to anybody else? Plague of Undeath is trickier. What seems the best way to distinguish it from Army of Darkness, in my opinion, is to make it the "zombie plague" spell; a sort of super-Contagion that's infectious and turns those who die into zombies. But, how can you make that workable for a PC caster? I could really use somebody to talk to about this. You must log in or register to reply here.
Jessica Wardman, longtime forum member Snoopy, passed away last week. She's been a valued part of the RPGnet community since , and will be dearly missed. Top Bottom.
Libris Mortis: The Book of Undead is a book which is an official supplement for the 3. It was received positively by reviewers, with praise for its material for Dungeon Masters and its illustrations, but received criticism for its weak player-oriented content. The book was the second in the series of books about specific monster types, the first being Draconomicon. Similar books published since include Lords of Madness. Libris Mortis included content from older books, such as Tome and Blood and the Book of Vile Darkness , that had been reworked. Inspiration for the book's content came from numerous sources. Cordell said that pop culture has "less impact on [his] conceptualizations of the undead", but he did mention The Evil Dead , 28 Days Later and the novel Salem's Lot.
VD's Libris Mortis for 5th Edition